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Posted by admin in ATROCITIES OF THE ROGUE INDIAN ARMY, Bigotry, Cult of Hindutva, Hate, Hindu Scorpion, HIndu Terrorism, HINDUISM CULT, Hindus Ignore Rape, INDIA -US ENCIRCLEMENT OF CHINA, India -US Joint Export to Pakistan: Terrorism, India Destroying Quietly US Economy, INDIA DESTROYING US ECONOMY, India Destroys US Economy, INDIA EXPOSED, INDIA MACHINATIONS TO DESTROY CHINA, INDIA STATE SPONSORED TERRORISM IN PAKISTAN, INDIA'S CASTEISM, INDIAN GOVTS LIES EXPOSED, INDIAN OCCUPIED KASHMIR, Sajjad Shaukat, Sajjad Shaukat 's Column on May 3rd, 2020
It is sad that as part of the Indian venomous propaganda campaign, in his article, published in Japan Times on April 14, 2020, under the caption “The other contagion: Political and religious fanaticism”, Indian writer Brahma Chellaney has shown misconceptions about the Muslims, some Islamic countries, including Pakistan and China in relation to the Coronavirus outbreak.
Brahma Chellaney wrote: “Just as fascism led to World War II, communism has engendered the greatest global health catastrophe of our time. The Chinese Communist Party, by initially covering up the COVID-19 outbreak in Wuhan, helped unleash the world’s worst pandemic … [China’s]…authoritarianism can ravage the entire world…the pandemic is another extremism—one grounded in religion…Meanwhile, a transnational Islamist movement, the Tablighi Jamaat (“Proselytizing Society”), by holding large gatherings in Malaysia, Pakistan, and Indonesia, helped export the pathogen to multiple countries extending from Southeast Asia to West Africa. This Sunni missionary movement also held a session in New Delhi that helped spread the virus across India. Through its large events, the Tablighi Jamaat—which has long served as a recruiting ground for terrorist groups—has emerged as the super-spreader of COVID-19…the organization will be remembered for the deaths and suffering it caused in many communities. The lesson is that religious fanaticism, like political despotism, is often deadly. Indeed, the blind faith of religious zealots has been a significant trigger in spreading the coronavirus, as Iran’s case underscores”.
While, spreading disinformation in line with the fanatic Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi, the ruling party BJP, including other religious extremist groups, the writer has ignored the ground realities.
Indian writer should pay attention to the fact that Prime Minister Modi’s extremist party BJP had also got a land sliding triumph in the Indian elections 2019, as, during the election campaign, the Hindu majority was mobilized on ‘hate Muslim’ slogans and ‘anti-Pakistan’ jargons. On the basis of the same slogans, the BJP-led alliance won the 2014 elections.
Since 2014 Modi-led BJP was already promoting religious fanaticism and the ideology of Hindutva (Hindu nationalism) by persecuting religious minorities, Sikhs, Christians, and particularly Muslims, including even lower cast-Hindus.
In his second tenure, the Premier Modi government accelerated the implementation of the Hindutva agenda, especially targeting the Muslims. Indian fanatic rulers’ various moves such as abrogation of the special status of the Jammu and Kashmir to turn Muslim majority into a minority in the Occupied Kashmir (IOK), continued lockdown in the IOK, the martyrdom of thousands of the Kashmiris there, issuance of a notorious map to bifurcate the Kashmir region into two union territories and introduction of new domicile law to further alter the demographic and geographic status of the IOK against the majority of Kashmiris are notable.
Particularly, in the aftermath of the elections 2019, news reports have highlighted different cases in which Dalits and especially Muslims were violently targeted by the radical Hindus.
In this respect, RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat said on October 8, 2019: “Bharat is Hindu Rashtra and all Bharatiyas are Hindus.”
Besides, the Indian Citizenship Amendment Act 2019 (CAA) further exposed the Modi government’s discriminatory policies. The CAA coupled with the National Register of Citizens (NRC) is mainly against Muslim immigrants especially from Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Afghanistan. It strips 200 million Indian Muslims of their citizenship.
Since December 15, 2019, daily mass protests, even by the moderate Hindus have been taking place across every state in India against the CAA and the NRC, which resulted in killing of more than 200 persons and injuring 800-mostly Muslims by the police and fanatic Hindus. But, the Modi-led regime has not withdrawn the CAA/NRC. Since February 23, this year when clashes started in New Delhi between protesters for and against the citizenship law, Hindu extremists of RSS and BJP have burnt properties of Muslims, including their vehicles and mosques, and compelled them to leave the areas.
While Indian rulers have been imposing various kinds of restrictions on the Muslims, coronavirus provided them another pretext to increase their hardships. Top officials of the Modi government and the health ministry claimed that Muslims are spreading this virus. Availing this opportunity, Hindu zealots have set off a series of assaults against Muslims across the country.
In this connection, The New York reported on April 12, 2020: “Muslims have been beaten up, nearly lynched, run out of their neighborhoods or attacked in mosques…Hindu extremists are scapegoating the country’s entire Muslim population for deliberately spreading the virus through “corona jihad”.
Al Jazeera reported on April 16, 2020, “Indian hospitals segregate Muslim and Hindu coronavirus patients…In what many are calling a case of “apartheid” during a global pandemic…made separate wards for Hindu and Muslim patients. It is a decision of the government”.
In this context, under the title “It Was Already Dangerous to Be Muslim in India. Then Came the coronavirus”, Billy Perrigo also elaborated the Indian present drastic anti-Muslim phenomena.
As regards the Tablighi Jamaat congregations since the remote past, they have been holding congregations. But, now as part of New Delhi’s biased policies, their preachers have also become the main target of coronavirus epidemic.
Indian Constitution which declares India to be a democratic state, safeguarding the rights of minorities has been torn into pieces by the Narendra Modi who has changed it into authoritarianism by targeting the minority groups, particularly Muslims.
And Brahma Chellaney who also held China responsible for deliberately preparing and spreading the COVID-19 is no more than disinformation. US-supported India wants to counterbalance China in Asia. So, the writer has spoken in the tone of America which has earlier accused Beijing in this regard.
Notably, Lijian Zhao, an official spokesperson for the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs stated on March 12, 2020, that the US Army has brought the coronavirus epidemic to Wuhan from where it originated. US athletes participated in the Military World Games which were held from October 18–27, 2019 in Wuhan.
So, Washington’s main aim was to check the rapidly increasing economic influence of China in the Afro-Asian countries. And New Delhi is also against the growing impact of Beijing in the region.
At present, China has controlled the coronavirus and lifted lockdown in Wuhan. Even, America is seeking Chinese help to eliminate the COVID-19 outbreak.
In terms of the above-mentioned facts, Brahma Chellaney’s article is based upon his misconceptions about the Muslims, some Islamic countries, including Pakistan and China.
Posted by Azahir in Cult of Hindutva, Hindu India, HIndu Terrorism, HINDUISM CULT, Independence Movements in India, INDIA -US ENCIRCLEMENT OF CHINA, India -US Joint Export to Pakistan: Terrorism, INDIA BEHIND BALOCH TERRORISM, India Destroying Quietly US Economy, INDIA DESTROYING US ECONOMY, India Exported Terrorism in Pakistan, India Sponsored Taliban Terrorism in Pakistan, INDIA SPONSORED TERRORISM IN KARACHI, INDIA STATE SPONSORED TERRORISM IN PAKISTAN, INDIA'S ANTI-PAKISTAN TOXIC PROPAGANDA, INDIA'S CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY, India's Envy, India's Guru Scam, INDIAN GOVTS LIES EXPOSED, INDIAN SABRE RATTLING BITS THE DUST, INDIAN SCAMMERS AROUND THE GLOBE, INDOPHILE NAWAZ SHARIF, MAKAAR HINDUS, Remembrance of Army Public School Shaheed(Martyrs) on March 29th, 2017
Provides a Sampling of Hindu Mind
A Peep into the Mind of Young Indians Suffering from Pakistanophobia
Raised in Muslim Hate=Pakistan Hate
Read here excerpts of Hindus speaking their mind in Quora.com-An Anti-Pakistan Indian infested Hate Site
The question isn’t as much as “What would happen if China and Pakistan attacked India?” rather is it possible China would join Pakistan to attack India on Pakistan’s insistence? And the answer is – a clear, big NO.
Why? Let’s analyze!
Pakistan has lost face everywhere with everyone. UAE doesn’t give it a damn. Nor does Iran. Nor does Saudi Arabia. Nor does Egypt nor does Turkey. Pakistan’s relations with Eurasian nations are – non-existent, with middle east – strained, with India – in dire straits and with the USA-UK-France-Germany – dying. Forget the big ones, Pakistan is unsuccessful at wooing even comparatively small nations such as Afghanistan and Bangladesh. There is not one country in the world which is willing to stand with Pakistan, save for China.
Now, the question is – will China go so far as to fight a war for Pakistan? Well, any sane analyst would answer that will a loud and clear NO.
China didn’t become a global power because of friendship with Pakistan, rather Pakistan is friends with China because it’s a regional superpower. Whereas China wouldn’t mind flattering Pakistan, massage it’s ego occasionally, it won’t fight a war for it. The reason is simple:
(1) China won’t fight a war. It didn’t become a global power by fighting wars. It grew by doing business. It wouldn’t jeopardize it’s trade with a big a nation such as India and with other nations as a cascading effect.
(2) Even if China fights someone, there will have something big for China in it. Fighting alongside Pakistan for what essentially is a brazen rocky land with no human population will be a very foolish step by China. China won’t be so foolish.
(3) In any case, whether China joins Pakistan in attacking India, or Pakistan uses it as an opportunity to attack India when it’s engaged with China, it will not remain a low intensity fight. It will escalate into a full-scale war, which will be devastating for the entire south Asia.
In case such a full scale war breaks out, USA and Japan will immediately join the war either directly or indirectly. Russia will be reluctant to join the war due to India factor but may extend some indirect military support to China. If the situation worsens, Vietnam, Philippines and Taiwan may join India to take the fight to Chinese mainland.India will mobilize it’s navy to destroy Pakistan beyond recognition in less than 48 hours. USA and Japan will exercise it’s naval and air power to bombard Chinese cities on eastern coast. Cities like Beijing, Shanghai, Shandong, Fuzhou, Guangzhou may suffer damages that will take decades to repair.
In the aftermath to the war:
(1) Pakistan may cease to exist. Baluchistan may become a sovereign nation. Remaining Punjab will be merged in Indian Punjab. KPK, Gilgit, Baltistan areas will go to Afghanistan, and Kashmir will be integrated fully into India giving it an autonomy.
Chinese business will suffer extreme damages taking the country back by at least a decade.
India will go back by a decade or more on it’s development, but in the future the progress will be fast, as the enduring peace post war due to a stable region lacking hostility will allow it to grow at a much faster pace without worrying about hostile neighborhood. The money India currently spends on military modernization, it will spend of building infrastructure and within a decade it will be completely back on its feet. Only bigger, stronger and commanding more respect.
Well, on fact what will happen and what will not is difficult to say. But there is an interesting Novel written on similar scenario and it is worth a read. Read it its a good one.
reference : Dragon Fire (novel)
Firstly, I don’t think such scenario is possible. China is smart enough to not to wage war against one its biggest markets for its product and inviting all the economic troubles in the current economic conditions.
Secondly, Lets assume if both China & Pakistan attack India at the same point in time, what are the various possibilities:
1. India will be incurring majority losses. Given the strength and capabilities of both the enemies, Indian forces definitely can’t handle both at the same time. But equal blows will be to Pakistan & China as well. India might loose at the end of the war (if it fights it all alone) but the damage done to China & Pakistan will be huge as well. India has one of the best missile technologies that it can target any part of China & Pakistan (Land to land marking). There is a possibility that if everything goes to much out of the hand, India might also think of using its Nukes (Now to the counter argument that both China & Pakistan are nuclear powers as well, The one who strikes first might have the possibilities to stop the war, or it can be used as a bargaining chip).
2. India’s allies especially the ones who are either against China Or Pakistan will come to support India, to name a few Japan, Israel, Iran, US, France etc. Their are lesser probabilities of France joining in, but if US supports India (because it’ll give it a purpose to fight China) many of the countries from Europe & England might join in India’s favor. And if that happens, I don’t need to say much, we might also get the entire Kashmir, our China captured area back at the end of it. Some extra territory might be the bonus. But Even if they not, Only Iran & Japan (both have extremely good relations with India) are enough to balance it out as China & Japan will be engaged on the other side of Chinese borders. Pakistan too will have to deploy its forces on Iran’s border, hence the focus will shift and then given the size of India’s army/navy/airforce. India can handle both on its top borders.
3. Pakistan will definitively be ruined. Because of its location & capabilities it’s an easy target for India. India might first try to go after Pakistan first, use its navy/air force/army to do the maximum damage their and than take it to China. You might say, till that China must have done huge damage to India but in a war going on damage is certain. Handling both simultaneously and making sure you win the war will be difficult. So India’s focus might shift to do maximum damage to both the countries. And given the size of Pakistan being very small compared to India & China. It will definitely be destroyed. And after that whosoever wins at the end India/China, both will continue to exists. Our population & Size is big enough that we can’t be completely destroyed. Our territory might get shorted but at the end of it, China & India will still exists. Pakistan, I think have dim chances.
Lastly, I still think, such a scenario is not going to happen. India is a smart country. They have solid foreign ties especially with countries against China & Pakistan. We are much powerful then Pakistan and in any scenario it will be difficult for Pakistan to afford a big war. China is heavily dependent on India, it’s the worlds largest exporter and we are one of the biggest Importers. Ours is the largest, economically capable middle class market in the world. Growing tension with India, China will loose Indian markets, and we all talk about modern day warfare, but most crucial of the warfare is Economics, and we have done enough good their. That its better for most of the countries of the world to be friends with India rather than being enemies. Even lets say China, all what media shows is that China is India’s enemy. I think it was but not now. Even if you read about China’s argument of not supporting India’s NSG membership it’s more because of distrust it has on Pakistan. Their is no point against India in it. So China will most likely not want to wage in any war with India for next 30–40 years at least. But since you asked it hypothetically, I have answered in the same fashion.
So there’s a if added to the question, so I will try to give a practical answer.
If China and Pakistan would attack India at the same time,then INDIA IS WRECKED.
YES, Offensive it may sound to most of the Indians but it’s the bitter truth.
Possible results of war-:
- India losing a significant Part of its territories .
- Loss of man and money.
- Possible nuclear attacks.
- Economic crisis.
- Downfall of Indian growth by 20 years.
Consider,Pakistan to be a motorcycle,India car and china a mini truck.Now what happens when both the countries attack India.
Whenever there is a clash between,motor cycle and car it’s obvious and practical car will bear a huge loss,no matter how badly both collided or even if its a one sided collision also.Now,consider when this damaged car is put against the mini truck what will happen to the car.No doubt,it will get wrecked. So will India.
Pakistan,is obvious will start from the LoC and the Rajasthan borders,with a huge amount of its tank capacity,it will try to enter the international borders,Now Indian military knows they need almost 2/3 of their troops in every field to stop that attack,so they will likewise plan them and position them.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/c…
Now,when 2/3 of your military forces are already enrolled defending your western borders, who will guard the Northen and eastern borders.Now,it becomes practically too difficult for the units to cover the distance in a single day from one border in west to other in East.
Now,China in every field is superior to India,be it the army,weapons,aircrafts or even the transport facilities.They have everything available for their soldiers right at the place they need.
Now,when 2/3 of the Indian army is busy fighting against Pakistan then how will the remaining soldiers deal with the Chinese army for which India originally had 3/4 available and 2/3 of which are busy right now.
Compare World Military Powers Results
So,it would be impossible for India to go through this kind of war and survive.Similar condition arrived in 1965 war,when India was fighting Pakistan then during that time China favoured Pakistan with all aid and military equipment and findings of 60 million$.So as India agreed on declaring ceasefire as one of the major concerns was constant interuption of China in the war,and if China would have come along Pakistan than everybody knew that IT WOULD BRING HAVOC IN INDIA.
As,the above scenario is hypothetical,but if this ever comes true than in simple words INDIA is DOOMED.
Q:What would happen if China and Pakistan attacked India?
A: Well first of all let us establish some ground facts-
This is the Chinese military’s awesome size-China Military Strength
and this is Pakistan- Pakistan Military Strength
vs this is India- India Military Strength
India will easily get it’s A** handed to it whether it is a conventional or nuclear war with China and Pakistan doing a “Tag-Team” to attack India.
China does want the world to kowtow and more importantly ASIA to kowtow and has taken a lot of steps for this to happen, some of them are collectively known as the “String of Pearls Strategy”-
But this strategy of China of looking down on its neighbours who don’s act in favour of Chinese interests also has another area. For China’s viewpoint see this –
This has resulted in the following countries becoming scared and even covertly antagonistic to China, they include-
Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Philippines, Vietnam, Australia and even the USA.
Of-course with South Korea coming, China’s “Special Needs neighbour and eternal Friend” – North Korea joins on the side of China.
So, we add – North Korea to Chinese allies- North Korea Military Strength
(NK may not formally attack India).
But add these countries to India’s supporters (but they may or may not enter the War formally)-
USA- United States of America Military Strength
Japan- Japan Military Strength
South Korea- South Korea Military Strength
Taiwan- Taiwan Military Strength
Vietnam- Vietnam Military Strength
Australia- Australia Military Strength
The wild card is of-course Russia – Russia Military Strength
The EU will play honest broker and sell arms to India and China all the time it’s media will praise India and its Govt will support China. Russia will most probably do the same, play honest broker to both sides.
In short- WW3 may take place (big IFF).
Summary- Pakistan will get obliterated, India will face massive losses and go back 25 years, China will lose badly if the US or Russia enter against it else will win big.
No, they’er not. at least China is not.
China has a border dispute with India in where they disagree on where the border should be drawn, they have no interest in conquering India or anything silly like that.
Perhaps more importantly, now the USA have set such precedence, war will never be declared between major countries ever again, they’ll just go ahead and do it (the USA never declared war against Vietnam, Iraq , Afghanistan.)
I can’t improve on bhavya kundu’s answer. But I have a slightly different perspective.
I think the war will be limited and short. Any largescale action will invariably include nukes. So here is what I think India will do
Pressurize Bangladesh to provide access to road network for Evacuating civilians.
Follow a scorched earth policy while rapidly retreating from NE
Invade Tibet through chumbi valley and use the sizeable refugee population to stir up trouble there
Bomb the karakoram highway out of existence
Disect pakistan at its “waist” using mechanized infantry. Kill the generals. It is a centralized sham democracy run by military. Once the leaders are gone they will take a long time to recover
Blockade Karachi port. Destroy all fuel storages in Pakistan. Stir up Baluchistan.
Let loose CRPF to decimate Maoists. Constitutional rights take a hike.
Indian Muslims come out in solidarity to openly denounce and lynch terrorists. Believe me, they will. If you don’t believe me, look at stats of communal issues in war years. Its like the kaurava-pandava thing – twixt us we are a hundred and a five, when an outsider raises his banner we are 105.
Mountain corps totally block up Siliguri corridor. The canals are breached in Bangla border to impede chinese armoured corps. Bangla asks for protection. All road/rail/bridges in assam Tripura border with Bangla bombed by IAF.
Ladakh is fortified with a totally defensive doctrine. But special forces drawn from gorkha/garhwali regiments harass Chinese logistics begin enemy lines. Dog fights all along border. India invades Tibet.
India confiscates every single petroleum barge to china. A large vessel waits near Malacca, ready to be scuttled.
Pakistan surrenders in the meanwhile. Indian troops withdraw after destroying every strategic installation.
By now India has called its western border, lost all of northeast east of Siliguri, gained some foothold in Tibet and hopefully have not ceded Ladakh west of chushul.
World intervenes. Armistice signed. Talks drag on.
India stays reticent till December. On Christmas eve indian migs fly out of aircraft carrier in bay of Bengal and bomb Chinese positions in north east India. Missiles with conventional warheads fly. Fatchance the Chinese can replenish logistics once winter sets in. India takes back northeast but tawang is lost.
Now India accepts status quo antebellum, if offered. If not post war positions are held
Aftermath
Economy in tatters.
North eastern people lose faith in India for deserting them in the beginning and “scorching their earth”.
Pakistan finally cowed.
India begs USA to let it in to NATO whatever the price.
UNO is once again exposed to be the sham that it is. But it as usually is not ashamed.
Russia was fence-sitting and making money. It was selling arms to India through Iran all these past few days at astronomical costs and
energy to china the same way.
Suggestions welcome. Off the cuff answer.
China and Pakistan vs India
It will be called as the “Doomsday”, not for India but for the whole world.
World War III will break out. Not believing me!! Look at the South China Sea. America has always been against the rise of Chinese. When World War II ended and UNSC formed, the US wanted India to be a permanent member so to have powers distributed in ASIA.
The war will not last long, with U.S, Japan, Australia, Afghanistan and ASEAN countries on our side, unless Russia take China’s side to seek a revenge on US. China has good ties with many African and Arab countries, and with some of our neighbours but they are highly unlikely to support any of the sides and most probably will remain neutral (I am little uncertain about Sri-Lanka). European nation will keep their involvement the least as they have learned their lessons from WWI and WWII.
But the over all picture will be the destruction of the Republic of China and Pakistan.
In the present scenario where world economy is trembling, a full flung war is not possible at-least for China but there is a possibility of a pseudo war. China and Pakistan are allies and are developing many nuclear and military technologies together. China can use Pakistan as a pawn against India if a war broke out between India and Pakistan, it can provide military aid and much needed economic aid to Pakistan.
Without external help of Chinese, Pakistan is not strong enough to directly get involve with India but given its history it is possible that Pakistan may get involved with India in an act of war. This will be catastrophic for all the South Asian countries and the world including China as the Indian ocean, which is a major trade region, will be a war zone.
Hence, China can corner India with Pakistan on one side and China on other. But Pakistan alone does not have enough military power to be a threat to India.
BUT For now it is highly unlikely for any rational country to get involve in any kind of war as all the world economies are connected and any disturbance can slow the world economy even further. India is a big market for manufacturing country like China and China will never want to loose India. It may be involved in some minor activities but overall China will never want to make India its enemy. India has some very strong international relations and its economy is booming even in the age of recession, its military is now the world’s 4th strongest and population world’s 2nd. To get involved with India will certainly be a unrecoverable loss for any country specially China.
Although its not directly linked with the question still its worth to read:
Those who wants India pak war :
While Pakistanis and Indians post stupid war jokes, somewhere a mother of a soldier silently sheds a tear and prays for her son’s safety.
If war is there : Loss of resources, Huge impact on Economy, International relations of the country, growth rate, FDI, development, education will get hampered. Nuclear power is big worry. Unnecessary political drama will be There. In nutshell, abi jo pesa education and development pe lagta h bad m wo Yudh pe lagega.
Well let us consider that Pakistan and China join hands and war is going to occur. Combining both power
Compare World Military Powers Results
Compare World Military Powers Results
From above link I have to consider some points only. Although all are nuclear capable nation and if nuclear weapon are not used against each other. Since china and India have mountainous border so tank and all heavy vehicle cant be put in use by Chinese army they have to be very dependent on air-force. Since China and Pakistan both operate on Chinese Technology which is re engineered Russian Jets. So, you they can be comparable but not good. So, in the air whole action will go on between China and India . Pakistan and India will be fighting on ground mostly. But Pakistan Army lacks in inventory as compared to India. There air-force lack of new generation planes and Tank, artillery and on naval front Pakistan can be said to be most backward. Pakistan can’t maintain long fight. India will have to vary about only air because it has to face more 1.5 to 1.8 times large fleet of aircraft. In my opinion this war may not be clearly won by any country. But considering India longstanding friendship and relation with Russia and US it may be possible that they would asset India fightback(Pact was signed between USSR and India which Russia Federation still follow). So, person who had asked this should not worry about it.
Currently, China is facing lots of difficulties in south china sea with its neighbor so it will not take on India in next 5 year atleast until it could resolve it.
World war 3.
more than two billion people at war. Definitely it will lead to world war 3 if it is an all out war not some escalated skirmish.
This is a highly unlikely scenario. reason being India and China are already at war.
In earlier days traditional wars were fought but now a days it is a battle of dominance at industrial and financial level. These days wars are fought politically rather than in the conventional manner.
Understand this. We are at war. we have already defeated Pakistan and as of now we are fighting China.This is an unconventional war. Pakistan is already having lot of turmoils in it’s own country.Most of the world already see them as a terrorist supporting country.Very soon they will have an economic break down with no support from outside if their political situations remains similar.we Indians have more money, more people most of which are young generation. we are considered as good people around the world and now we have a great leader too . As of now we are racing against china and we are at advantage due to our younger population.They have better infrastructure and more resources. 20-25 years down the line the country with more dominance around the world economically and more influence at UN level with a young workforce and industries to support future generations will be the country which comes out of this battle as victorious.
Let us imagine the premier of China and Pakistan decides one day over a morning coffee to attack India. China completely overseeing the economical conditions of the country which mostly depends on manufacturing sector Which is degrading amidst crisis in international economy calls for a war against India. People in China are more focused on improving the environmental conditions and supporting it’s manufacturing Industry rather than wasting their money, manpower on Some war which will not achieve them the above objectives but will create a negative impact on them. And regarding a country like Pakistan they can never sustain the cost of full scale war with India or with any other country. The country itself is becoming a blot on the world map for supporting terrorism. People in the country are suffering because of their leaders making arbitrary policies. Pakistan is also seeking help from many developed countries(mainly US) of which most of the countries share good relation with India so they can’t afford any international sanctions.I believe you get a good picture, In today’s world war is not the solution to a problem but a method to escalate the problem even more. If any how Pakistan and china attack India it would be difficult for India to support the war for a long time but before the war takes it toll other powerful countries will intervene and will resolve the matter due to the fact all these 3 countries possess nuclear arsenal. Thus, such a situation would not arise and even if it does, it would be futile.
Well, this question is kind of stupid… why would China want a war with its largest trade partner?
Worst case scenario it would fund Pakistan’s side even thought that is not very likel. Let’s say Both Pakistan and China attack India . Yes, it would be difficult for India as deploying troops on both the borders will not be easy and then if the war goes on they ill have only one option which none of us would want as it might have dangerous consequences: use a nuke.
If both of the countries do form a team against India the world will get involved. USA would be with India due to issues withChina and Pak. North Korea with China ofcourse. Russia is unpredictable but probably would be with India too. The Europian countries will not be directly involved. If this happens then off course the Indian side has a very high chance of a win.
But this should not happen,the above was a worst case scenario. Anything like that happening is very unlikely.
It’s not that people of these countries hate each other. They praise each other when it’s something good and vice versa.
The core aspect of any nation to wage war is its ability to run supply lines.
In case of Pakistan, they don’t have the resources to wage an escalating war. They cant even sustain a campaign for more than 2 weeks if the fighting is intense. Guns, tanks and ships don’t fall out of the sky. They are in limited supply and they get used really fast.
The Chinese will be the ones fighting on both the fronts and running supplies. Indian artillery can wreak havoc on these narrow supply lines as they pass through the Himalayas. Its really that simple. That’s the main reason there is no conflict. India has established its supply lines well in the country. China needs to stretch its supplies from its heartland to the mountains and that’s hard considering the many mountains it needs to pass through and the long distances they cover.
Also, Indian armed forces have been preparing for this for nearly 2 decades. Wars are not all about numbers. Its also about strategy, tactics and defenses. India has made sure that the enemy pays dearly for every square inch they gain. They are aware that they cant simply hold on to the incoming enemy. As a result, they have been preparing to bleed the invading forces crush them at choke points. They also have an offensive posture now where they gain major territory in lieu of losing minor ones. One must understand that India is the only nation in the subcontinent that has had real wars within the last 3 decades. Neither China nor Pakistan have had the kind of experience that we have.
About Pakistan, its already a failed country. I will never rule out the possibility of India Pakistan war in future. Surely this could happen.
We are very unlucky to have China and Pakistan as our neighbours.
Though Pakistan does not have power to attack, but has deterrence to protect it self if India enters their soil for attack. They have nuke weapons and they are stupid enough to use it.
INDIA CAN TAKE CARE OF PAKISTAN, THOUGH I WILL NEVER SAY IT WOULD BE A PEACE OF CAKE. BUT EVENTUALLY INDIA WILL WIN AND MAY NOT SUFFER VERY MUCH ON ECONOMY. (GIVEN THAT NO NUKES ARE EXCHANGED)
It will result in nuclear holocaust or defeat of both China and Pakistan.
Why two scenarios?
Its not a hidden fact that India will not able able to stand against China and Pakistan together. Any missile attack on Indian city will result in massive use of nuclear weapons from Indian side.
Countries like Russia, Japan, USA, Britain know that without Indian and Chinese market they won’t survive. Most probably they will stand against aggressor. So defeat of both China and Pakistan.
I don’t know the from which country the person asking this question comes from but the question asked is very naive. Someone who understands basic geo-politics of the Indian sub-continent would never talk of a Sino-Indian war in this era and I will tell you why.
The above 3 points may not necessarily be the only points which could avert a Sino-Indian conflict but are some of the key pioints.
Now coming to the point of Pakistan. A war with Pakistan is very likely however India will not be an attacker here. India has always had concerns with Pakistan sponsoring terrorism. We went to war on this point in 1999 when Pakistan infiltrated into India and they were driven back. We almost went to war in 2001 after the terrorist attack on the Indian parliament and again in 2008 after the 26/11 Mumbai terror attacks. So, it is possible that Pakistan may try to target India through a terrorist attack again and if this does happen, India will definitely hit back. It could be a limited surgical strike or a full fledged attack to take out the terrorist camps. Whichever mode of attack India may chose, I am sure India will take the full world into confidence like it did in 1999.
So in a nutshell, chances of China attacking India are remote, very remote. Chances of Pakistan attacking India and India defending itself are very high.
That is almost impossible! Because Indian army is known for its bravery! Wait,am not going to say we can trash both at a go! Am damn sure that,even though Pak-China attacks India at the same time,Indian army wouldnt retreat.They would give their best. In the mean time, when three nuke-nattions are fighting,the world wont watch.The rest of the community would work even more sincerely to stop the war
So here the question has two aspects.
As the answer to the first question.
China has the largest military in the world. India is on the third place. So the war wont be that easy to win. There will be hell a lot of causalities on both sides. On the land war, China will find the first taste of success if the attack starts on summer season. But when the season moves to winter , the same Chinese will be like the goat trapped in the lion’s den. The reason is the mighty Himalayas. Back in 1962, Chinese were on a super winning streak and in the November month they identified that the snowfall in the Himalayas will stop all their supplies and they will be left out and hence they withdrew from the war. The same will happen now also. Fighting a war on Himalayas is damn tough and the terrain is completely different from anywhere in the world. Even aerial fighting wont be good enough. Now consider the other scenario, Pakistan is attacking India from one side and China from another side… It will be a hell time for India. The military itself will find it tough to allocate resources. Pakistan will attack from Jammu side, Punjab side and even Naval forces will be involved. So it will be the doomsday for India. Without any external supports, India will fight it tough to win the war. The valiant military and weapon resource will give India a better fighting stand but not a winning one. Eventually our borders will be compromised and enemy will enter into the state. But at this situation.. India will face a tough decision to make… Nuclear or Not … provided that we have never attacked any country in the whole history of the world, I don’t know how India will use its nuclear artillery in the first place.
Now to the second part… What if China and Pakistan start attacking India… This has much more consequences than the first one. First of all US will intervene and they will use this chance to get a strong hold over China and that means they will support India. As a life long ally, Russia will support India. North Korea obviously will support China . I dont see chances of any European countries involving directly in the war. Now imagine, Russia+US+ India + Japan vs China [ Team A] + Pak + Korea( North)..[Team B]. Team B doesn’t even have a chance. Pakistan will surrender within a month or two. Game over that side. Now China and Korea.. Both of them will be tough to beat . But attacks from all corners will make China stop the war. US and Indian aircraft carriers will round China within no time…Probably they will forced to use nuclear weapon and rest may be history 🙂 …
Economic and socio-political consequences of such a war might be beyond words. Entire world economy might come to a standstill as China is the manufacturing hub of the world… The power shift will happen and world might move to a dark period.
India also has alliances with other countries in Asia as well as out of asia.
japan, Vietnam, Philippines, South Korea, Taiwan
Has the same problems with china that we have with pakistan.
And these countries have mutual defense pact with India. 4/5 countries have defense pact with USA-NATO.
And do not ignore Iran and Afghanistan are also allies of India.
So pak and china will also have multiple front war.
So just chill and grab the beer and let Pakistan and China enjoy their alliances.
So
Defending troops on highlands need lesser men than attacking lowland troops. . We will manage somehow, and we dont need us or russian direct military help, we can do it ourselves we simply have to defend our highland posts and continue chinese blockade of oil, while garnering international support inviting embargos on china
they will fall like dominos. Pakistan isnt really that significant. If US stops supplying them modern defense equipment they will have neither quality or quantity,we can achieve that by diplomatic missions.
Question: What would happen if Pakistan and China both decide to attack India at the same time?
Answer: Catastrophe, for all the warring nations. Please bear in mind that all the three nations are nuclear armed. Imagine for yourselves what would happen if any of the three nations is cornered. Millions upon millions would die as a result.
Also China and India are two of the biggest economies after USA. The whole world including USA would be extremely worried. UN, USA and most other nations would do their best to stop such a war.
Let such a war never ever happen.
I am upgrading this comment on Henry Leung’s (and even as a reply to Wang) answer for common visibility !!!
Henry Leung has claimed to give a neutral answer, often saying China is not Pak Ally and that INDIA and china are not comparable…
But only after reading their answer and their style of answering, one can understand how witty and selfishly China is behaving and (trying to) bullying/messing everyone whom it thinks it can, often fooling them simultaneously via other forums and platforms by presenting itself as Innocent (forced to for sake of it’s own survival) and and its actions justifiable !!!
As far as War is concerned, Not even in the Dreams, the world’s biggest economy (PPP) would like to mess with World’s Fastest growing, third biggest Economy (and Vice Versa) !!!
You are acting like China itself, being made in china !!!
Sweet sugar coated bully bragger who is concerned only about itself !!!I will show why exactly you are what I said…
Your trade route goes around every possible maritime area in the world… sometimes i feel the only country in China’s world map is China only !!!
If your trade routes passes through Indian Ocean that’s your problem not India’s. Your trade routes have become wandering ghosts, they just pass like from nowhere to everywhere…
When other countries claims maritime territory in south china sea, you have a problem, but you seem to have a license to do “UNGLI” (search it) in every other (read India) country’s backyard in order to save your own interests…JUST LIKE you feel like hitting PHILIPINES OR VIETNAM, India Feels like kicking you when you mess with the Indian Ocean…Its not all about China…that you can justify your problems to India by messing with India… while no one else can do that to you…seriously !!!
Your fishermen have traditional fishing grounds even in INDONESIA’s Exclusive Economic Zones.. while what do you think INDIAN fisherman are doing… Our NAVICs are sailing across the Sky…I feel you should respect their traditional fishing grounds and remove those Anti satellite weapons you have developed for COMMON CHARITY !!!
You will SYMPATHISE with all the perspectives, but never agree with others… since your interest are prime… when you are a selfish bully why the hell care to come on quora only to show you are friends… Foes (read rivals here) disguised as Friends are more dangerous than Enemies!!!
India is NO PAKISTAN that can be fooled by tossing toys to them…
Regarding military might, nobody knows what the other country is cooking up…
If china has underestimated its power display, any reasonably sound defense analyst will accept India to have have a comparable secret weapon system…so don’t brag around beating the bush…Bush couldn’t do that, who are you?
Real might is always shown only in Arena not in media or online forums…so leave that to our respective heroes… may they never have to face each other than to greet…
You will oppose India at every possible International forum but still say you are not allies of Pakistan or whatever… You don’t need to.. since China can be ally of NO ONE…other than itself…Pakistan is idiotic enough to not see through…but Pakistan is Pakistan and you are dealing with INDIA… PAK was with USA, now with you.. tomorrow it might come with any Other Might… It is the Sawant of International Politics….
If you need a secure maritime route… SO DOES INDIA and only more… INDIA is not messing with you, while you are messing with everyone you can…including those YOU SHOULD NOT BE !!! When your Interest come Other’s security can go for a toss, but when they protect theirs you have a problem… I sincerely doubt how innocent China is in the South China Sea…
And competition is never limited to Economy dear… Its about every other sphere… Just because you export more chips than the world can eat 🙂 doesn’t mean you don’t have any competition… I hope you get it… You have literally no actual sense being with Pakistan other than Regional dominance… if there is no competition why is china DUMPING billions (including obsolete technology) in Pakistan when your Chinese companies are finding hard time to get permission to open retail stores in India…
If China is really India’s Friend then, it at least should put away bringing hurdles in India’s way if it can contribute positively (glaring example NSG, UN blocking of anti terrorist resolution). Then it should reconcile its priorities with India’s. India does not assume china to be an Ally, but at least China needs to behave like a neutral friend first, only then China can present itself as a genuine friend. Knife and Honey can’t go hand in hand.
BEHAVE like a FRIEND and then CLAIM to be a FRIEND, Dear !!!
On a parting Note read this to come to senses about the reality of your Great Chinese Economy !!!
Why Are So Many Chinese Phone Brands Now in India?
Because They are unable to sell them in China, since the Chinese Economy is not expanding rapidly enough !!!
Remember you are now a HUGE factory Country but not a huge Market Country !!!
Shubh Ratri Mitra !!!
PAST WAS YOUR’S, FUTURE IS DEFINITELY INDIA’S !!!
If china wants to get finish then only it will attack on india with pak.
Because pak is going to be deleted very soon from world geography.
And as far as china is concern , nowadays china is taking unnecessary clashes with all countries like phillipines in case of south china sea, it is also denying the verdict of PCA , USA is already looking for a chance to tackle this chinas hegemonic attitude , and to counter it .
One thing is sure that china have more interest in its economic growth than the friendship with pak.
Already china is now seeking help from India in south china sea issue and CPEC which is going through POK and Baluchistan .
China is more concerned about its own interest than Pakistan’s friendship.
Now when pak will attack india , china may not come , because there is no legitimate reason with pak to attack India. If it does so it will be trrrorism and act of aggression.
In that case all countries will unite and stand by India against pak means against trrrorism . and in that case if china comes to rescue pak ,china will have to lost much of it, and will lost big trding partner as well as bilateral relationship with other countries too on the grounds of supporting terrorism .
And china will even lost pak because till then pak will be no more .
Because war between India and pak will be war between anti terrorist and pro terrorist countries and china will have to stand by anti terror group .
First off all I am an Indian.
China never invaded India first. It was India who tried to claim Aksai Chin to be Indian territory. When the chinese built a highway, Indian soldiers were sent to take control of the highway. The soldiers who were mostly equipped with lathi(stick/long cane) and PT shoes, were asked to police off the chinese. The Chinese authorities assumed it to be a threat used full military retaliation. They conquered large part of India without any hassle, only to know that India was not a threat but a victim to shit leadership of Nehru and his defense minister VK Krishna Menon. These two waged a war without any previous experience or even caring about its army which was ill equipped.(post this defeat, modernization of army was initiated. They were policy makers who made war policies sitting safely in the parliament while Indian soldiers were left to die at the borders.
China was just enough to go back to its original line of control after stopping the war on humanitarian grounds. They felt for the Indian population who were misinformed by Pre independence leaders like Nehru(
He had blind followers because of Independence struggle). They treated the Indian POWs with medical care and also returned them without any hurt.
Also, India was a hegemon at that time and the next decade, poking its nose into internal matters of other neighbouring states like Bangladesh, Sri Lanka etc.
It is highly unlikely that China will ever strike India in future because of its past and also because of growing trade relations.
It is very unfortunate that Indian textbooks are modified by the continuously ruling party to portray how great it is in the minds of its people to get votes. It is important to learn things from independent sources not controlled by the ruling party.
I am an Indian who loves India but criticizes its wrong doings of the past.
Hindi-Chini Bhai Bhai.
I will not go into analysis but these are some of the probable scenarios that might happen regardless of outcome of war:
1. Pakistan will be become Afghanistan of 80s and 90s. This is because some of Pakistan army top brass will try to fight this war with the help of militants. These militants eventually cannot be controlled by Pakistan.
2. Pakistan will be isolated with sanctions
3. There will be total chaos, unrest and famine. Economy will be in shamble
Now let us talk about a real war if at all it happens:
1. It will be inevitable that Pakistan will use proxies like militants in war. So initial causalities will be a case for India to prove that Pakistan sponsors terrorism once we capture these militants in war in the form of POW
2. China so far maintained that it is a bilateral issue. Hence it will stay out of it. Else, it will be practically inviting US and other allies of India
3. Pakistan cannot afford a traditional war unless it decides to use international aid which in turn will expose its dubious distinction. In other words, no country can support Pakistan unless it can prove that it is under attack which it cannot prove especially if it providing safe havens for terrorists. Let us not forget Osama story. Bottom line is it cannot sustain war even for few days.
There will be great global impact by India Pakistan War. India is the biggest market in the world today. CHINA has a great part of export made to India. USA is also well involved in India as a trading partner. UK depends on India as a market after BREXIT. So India is very well positioned as the the entire world economy depends on India. So CHINA WILL NEVER ATTACK INDIA. USA, UK, EU even the AFRICAN continent will support INDIA.
As for pakistan after Uri attacks, the most asked question today by all Indians is what to do with Pakistan. So we have prepared a video on how India can retaliate, so that we can eradicate the Pakistani problem once and for all.
The first thing we need to understand is why Pakistan, indulges in a Proxy war rather than a full scale conventional war. Proxy war is a type of confrontation between two nations, in which neither engages the other in direct combat. This is highly used in Soviet Afghan war and Vietnam war.
Proxy war has following advantages; it is low cost warfare. So there is no cost of mobilization of army or keeping up with your enemy. On an average it takes 30 to 35 days to train any terrorist. We have seen that America withdrew from Vietnam due to high public pressure as the soldiers got killed and American public panicked. Same was seen in Afghanistan and Iraq. But In a proxy war there is no such Difficulty. As for example, Ajmal Kasab is an unknown young man from a village of Pakistan. In Pakistan he had no future. So people of Pakistan do not care if one ajmal kasab dies. He is an estranged young man without a future for them. But the same is not true if a man of Pakistani army dies. Then it will be all over the news. Everyone will feel for him and if many of them die then there will be pressure on government. In this form of war one side can inflict large damage on the other. As main targets are civilians, who are unarmed and untrained. They are easy targets. So with minimum inputs one can cause maximum damage. In this form of warfare, there is no sovereign involved, so there is no face to blame. No political responsibility at all. You send men unknown and under no flags. So they are fanatical mercenaries rather than soldiers. As only a few men are required at a time. So there is always a low cost in terms of Human Life’s lost to the terrorist state. This tactic involves fear. So people in any area are scared due to frequent attacks and the way of life changes. This technique is used to cause de stability in an area. The most prominent example is Kashmir. Lastly it all looks like a local problem, rather than an attack. Like Mumbai and Pathankot at both places, Pakistan lost few unknown and local estranged youth but created a great impact. So this kind of warfare suits them.
Now I will place two questions before all of us Number One “Can India Start a Conventional war against Pakistan.” Yes why not. It can easily do so. India has the third largest army in the world and the most disciplined army in the world. It has the fourth largest Air force in the world. We have the fourth largest Armoured Core in the world. We have the Seventh Biggest Naval Fleet in the world. But my second question is should India start a full scale war. The answer must be no. Firstly, that’s what Pakistan wants. It has nothing better to do. Its whole country is formed on hatred for India. It cannot do any good for itself and just want to indulge in a war in frustration. Secondly, Pakistan is a failed terrorist state with a very loose finger on its nuclear arsenal. Pakistan will not think twice before using it. Once it uses it, the state of Pakistan is inevitable perished by Indian response but this will also impact india dearly. Pakistan is a suicidal state. It was formed on nonsense grounds; they are not ethnic to that region. They are surrounded and cornered. Pakistan has no mission vision or path as a Nation. So in human term’s it is insane. So we must be careful as we are with any insane person. Also if India’s problem of Pakistan is solved it will no longer need the large arm’s stock it buys from the west. So in our wild dreams we presume that they will support us in a one and for all war against Pakistan. Also if we went to a war we will lose the great economical push we have now.
Now what India can do in this state? Primarily India can focus all attentions in Baluchistan. It is like a primary response toward Pakistani mischief. By causing chaos in Baluchistan, India can cause Pakistan to face a multi facet war in which a weak economy like Pakistan cannot survive. Also the issue can be used to bring international communities attention towards Pakistan’s atrocities in Baluchistan. But the main problem is Baloch Conflict has to be handled with caution, because the conflict will impact regions of Iran and Afghanistan. So we have to see that the conflict stays out of Iran and Afghanistan.
In the CPEC Region or the China Pakistan Economic Corridor there is investment of at least 46 Billion USD by China. . IF INDIA STOPS OR DELAY THIS INVESTMENT IN GILGIT REGION AND BALOCH REGION. BOTH CHINA AND PAKISTAN WILL BE HURT TREMENDOUSLY.
i agree with henry leungs answer and he tried to be unbiased and fair while answering. but i have a few points in which i disagree with him. one thing saying that China needs gwadar for securing their trade routes is very lame and it would only make indians more anxious. let us not forget that china had deployed nuclear submarine on the filmsy pretext to fight against poorly armed pirates in the eastern africa and gulf of aden and that immediately raised eyebrows in India . India has always acknowledged China as an important and powerful neighbor. we were one of the first in international community to recognize it after the communists toppled the nationalist government there in Beijing and we even accepted chinese sovereignty on tibet forgoing the the rights which the colonial british india government had negotiated in 1914 Simla accord . but china has not always responded to india’s outreach. just imagine if India starts increasing its military presence outside china’s backyard , will chinese accept it? then why should chinese do the same against india. Also what is the justification in them saying that Masood Azhar is not a terrorist and evidence against him is not enough? and what about provocative steps like issuing stapled visas for people coming from arunachal pradesh and J&K? (of course later they stopped issuing such visas for people from J&K , but it still continues for people from Arunachal) . how would it be for chinese if india were to do the same thing for people from tibet or xinjiang?
finally i would like to say that if we have to coexist as as neighbours we must be more reasonable rather than being very rigid and stubborn about the nationalist narrative which was fed to us by our governments.
We live in a very different world today than we ever used to. The world is very interlinked and interconnected today. There is absolutely no way China would go to war with India. Both India & China has enough Nuclear weapons to completely wipe out each others population. First of all there is no way even Pakistan will attack India. Pakistan has a very weak army & less international support than India . Every country will sanction Pakistan if it does such stupid thing. If this hypothetical situation ever arrives then consider it end of the world.
Both india and china are almost super power now and as their economy is growing they will both have highest gdp by 2050 . Well I don’t think china will support pakistan if we went on war but pakistan will definitely support china . Now , if we talk about army… chinese are slightly above than indians so it will not be much helpful in war . But india has a plus point Russia will support india , but china do not have such a major power a friend . So the result for india in starting of war will be hazardous but later china will get into big trouble . As china also shares border with Russia ..Now the real scene will arise chinese are type of people who never quits so definitely they will move to use their nuclear power. In response india will also have to use it’s nuclear power . Man we will come to the point of third world war .Now if we talk about the role of Usa , then usa is business he will keep helping the loosing country be selling his crap and at last when both became week .it will put his bases and army to the week one and this will declare the end of war …Now ,if both india and china don’t want to go back to the dark ages like syria and iraq it’s better that they resolve their disputes and became a friend . And lead the world by 2050 as the largest economies..
China and Pakistan will only attack india if they are going to risk it all or World War 3. Since the warfare weapons are much more advanced than last world war, whoever will be losing the war will unleash nuclear weapons which is bad for the economy of any surviving country. USA wont like that china would gain control of major part of south asia, even if Russia is ally of china, they wont that to happen.
If all become crazy and attacks happen, india and pakistan destroyed and china would be at 30-40% strength and then, Russia would attack china. And Asia will come under Russia. It will be then USA and Russia for the finals.
first of all,China won’t do that, as 90 percent of the xiaomi devices are purchased by we Indians 😀
no this is a serious fact i am giving, Chinese market is hot in India and China won’t want to lose such market, so economy is one of a million facts as why China won’t,sorry,can’t attack India
Second of all,Pakistan, i don’t feel afraid mentioning it here, has been attacking India one way or the other for a long time, turn your TV on and you see a news about it every single day.
It’s the open war we are talking about,if Pak declares an open war against India,it is violating a lot of the World policies,making all the other nations its direct enemies, so dear Pak,please think twice before doing anything foolish,and did i forget to mantion Indian capabilities to defend itself?
Lets get down to the ultimate effects of the war (hypothetically if that happens). With nuclear in stock with both the countries, I wonder how will the world would react to that; but it would be a disaster.
Just think about it once. I do not intend to say who would win or who would loose but primarily there will we irrecoverable disaster that would haunt generations to come in both the countries.
So, peace is what should prevail and on go. The question at first place should not be about what would happen if the war breaks but what would happen after the war comes to an end.
I will write rather a small answer.
I Pakistan wage direct war then only this question will arise, Pakistan is a militant nation and they will never accept a war being done by Nation.
This bigger nation will just send their people to die here.
China is a business nation now, they need market to sell their products and Pakistan is not a nation with good purchasing power of citizens.
So in case of a state sponsored war, China will dump more of their weapons in Pakistan just like America did for donkey years and use their land to access MENA and Europe market.
Not a chance… each passing day new issuesplus greater talibanization of pak increasing… plus wreath of a billion hindu sikh community… why china risk and what returns.
Also China pak friendship has some cracks… some serious ones….cant disclose more but youll see them in a decade or so. Pak is unhappy with growing chinese soldiers crossing into pak in units patrolling and not allowing any pak army tents nearby. Pak bounded by treaty in future there are chances of rift even upto extent that some area guarded by china rumours are has secretly been offered/given away to china for paks inability to fulfill its financial commitmentto China. Some also suggest pak dont want to lose kashmir issue as kashmiris are not happy with chinese presence and pak has no choice to give away land for faster end to problem.
Secondly due to extremely low costs of defense equipments…. some steel and other parts fitted are secondhand and repaired sold by china as new. This is a confirmed news with severe contract breach but pak cant protest as China is a friend where china is rubbing off hands by being unaware of the whole situation and blaming shortage of new material for pak needs.
Thirdly Pak is also upset with the additional royalty fee of 40percent levied something that will increase its costs significantly namely in ship making and also in its primary jf17s
So enemy enemy doesnt fit here. The concern is how to continue forward the friendship of years without annoying one friend yet stopping him from overstepping on others throat
Imagine you have two neighbours. one bad neighbour who is gunda and keep harassing your daughter. and one good neighbour who is almost equivalent to you. you and your good neighbour meet, have parties, show off wealth and also do some business together.
so your good neighbour will always wish downfall and will secretly support your bad neighbour also. now if your bad neighbour start beating you, then will your good neighbour also start beating you? but infact it will show that it is trying to mediate between you too. he may wish your downfall but to the world he will show that he wants fight to stop. also if fight will start affecting his business he will seriously reprimand the gunda neighbour.
this is exactly going to happen. china will never attack india. pakistan could believing china will attack too. but china will never do that. infact china will show to the world that it is helping india. pakistan will left behind and disintegrate one more time.
There is a loop hole in indian map, there is a region between nepal and bhutan which belongs to india, this a very light strip of indian land which connect india to arunachal pradesh, and if china occupy that strip it will cut of indian reach to arunachal pradesh,nagaland and all other regions, no military can reach there,
So it is obvious that china will attack this region and capture it , in this scenario we can reach arunachal and all region but only with the help of bhutan or bangladesh but they will not help india in war, as china is investing in large scales in bhutan and bangladesh and these 2 countries do not want to unplease china at all.
And if pakistan attack at the same time from jammu and region then we need large army at their, it is going to be a very very fatal condition.
Now the only way india can stand we have to make our army mobile so that our army can move all from jammu to sikkim and arunachal, by building roads, bridges, so we need more roads than weapons here for the army and it will be a huge task and gonna take some time.
So what we can do atleast is post some videos on facebook on youtube, so that we can make this matter a matter of concern for govt and people, there has to be a debate on newspaper, on news talk shows than only govt can invest on these projects.
Neither china nor Pakistan will ever resort to full scale war against India.
How ever to my Indians friends, “Dont live in fools a paradise that Pakistan might seizes to exist.”
well there is no doubt if china and pakistan attack india together we will have no chance but yes even if we go alone in war we might loose but there will be no pakistan on world map and half of china and as far as i think US will not like china to dominate asia fully and only india is capable of stopping it. So US will come to india’s aid and we have peace treaty with Russia in time of war we will help russia and russia will help us and if russia opens just nothern front and attack china china will never cope with russia and india combine attackadn there is massive possibilties tibbet and tiawan will rise for indipendence so china can not fight on three frons and if US and europe join hands with india with vietna opening another front china will be surrounded and will be defeated with in 15 days max. Well china will not attack india cause we are competitors in global market but they will attack cause they have expansionist policy they want colonies like britain but they can take control of tibet but never india .
Well according to the most acceptable theory china will not attack India
there are more than one variable involved when any two country goes into war.
these are the situation which according to me is most likely to happen in event of war
first of all there is anti china environment in Asia due to its recent aggression in east china sea which is cause of concern for ASEAN countries and hence they are not only backing up India but also U.S and Russia to back them up against china
secondly in event of war between India Pakistan would be neutralized by United States as stopping them their grant and will increase pressure from institutions like IMF and WORLD BANK to pay up previous loan
also there will be lot of criticism in Pakistan though some will support this decision but max amount of people would be against attacking neighboring country it is a very separate topic anyways
america will favor India for two reason
after South Korea and Japan India is their biggest ally
china is bigger threat to U.S than it is to India
(also american loves war)
the concept of Russia would be neutral in this situation for following reason
1-backing up china means there will be anti Russian environment in Asia
2- it would further push India towards west meaning losing of potential weapon customer and an ally
3-China is a competitor of Russia(though in not that big of a scale)
4-Russia and India have very old and close relationship
Though China may prove itself leader of the world attacking India would be their worst mistake
this attack will some what look like annexation of Tibet hence will be criticized by whole international community including Tibetan people and china might loose Tibet
there is whole lot of variables these are some of the crucial ones
peace
JAI HIND
China will never go on war with india in support of pakistan in real world. Its because we both have civilian leadership that are well aware of the consequences of war unlike pakistan where army leaders rule the decision making. Both china and india aim to be superpowers and the war will through both of us a decade back.
But lets assume in a hypothetical world china gonna support pakistan against india in war then what could happen.?
But in my personal view china will never support pakistan militarily. They could have in 1965 or 1971 or 1999 but since they havent hence they will never.
Although they do support pakistan on world forums.
I like china. It is a huge country that stood on its feet on its own. Cultivated one of the world’s greatest economy. Redefined the word development. But there are few cases i am totally disappointed with china.
1st thing china at this stage cant offord any war with india because it is making many new enemy in south china sea region. China cant use even 50% of its power in war with india because it has to save its south china sea region with is rich in oil and gass every cou try need oil and gass to keep its development on track.. Usa, south korea, japan, australia, philipins, viatnam, and few other more cou try is always ready ready there in south china sea region to stab in back to china.
And i dnt want say anything about pakistan u all know it cant even fight with india’s 25% of army, air and navy power
then russia and USA will be dragged and nukes will also come into use there will be no more pakistan at the cost of more than half of the india china will be stopped by russians depending the weather and if everything fails I am ready to join both armed and un armed resistence even if it cost me my life no mateer what happens afterwards
Pakistan…….war.…..with……India……once again
……why would they want insult themselves again n again in all fields…..and moreover with Pakistan it’s not war but it’s like a mosquito bite…..although mosquitoes can cause life threatening situations too but these are benign ones……sometimes I feel even carrying weapons into war with them is a waste….. mosquito repellents should be good enough…..
Coming to China…..yes respectable formidable side……but I don’t think there would be a war between the two as both are concerned about economic growth rather than think of other petty issues……and China has a huge landmass…….why would it want to increase its work with war and capture India to increase its work……
as far as if u look at the record of all the wars that india has fought like 1947 1962 1965 1971 1999 i can say that if china and pakistan both gang up to attack india then united states and other western countries might come to indias help… as long as china is involved… the proof of it is in 1962 when US president john f kennedy sent a nimitz aircraft carrier in bay of bengal which forced the chinese to vacate arunachal pradesh…
whereas the west remained a mute spectator when it was only india and pakistan…
although since there is so much domestic terrorism and insurgency in all of these 3 countries going to war will lead to complete destablisation of south asia… so its very unlikely they will go to war..
PRACTICALLY THINKING , PAKISTAN AND CHINESE millitary mindsets are very sharp and cruel.. china’s secret plans and stockpiles of weapons is way ahead of india ad pakistan combined.. china does’nt need pakistan’s aid to defeat india.. india is lagging behind in every aspect from china in defense and attack point of view… and pakistan is not a weak country in terms of millitary…many of our missiles and weapons are still in testing and developmental stage.. so deployment of them fully is at a standstill till 2020 atleast…our social media boasts about india’s power so much that our mindset is very positive for india’s millitary condition which is definitely not enough to beat china…we may have a large army but not as large as china…surely if india vs pakistan-china happens… we can destroy pakistan to a very high level… but china… no ways…
even if we keep india’s secret weapons in mind half of them are in manufacturing stage or in developing stage.. which can cannot be operational by 2020…
Posted by admin in CROSS BORDER KILLINGS BY INDIA, INDIA -US ENCIRCLEMENT OF CHINA, India -US Joint Export to Pakistan: Terrorism, India Backstabbing US, INDIA BEHIND BALOCH TERRORISM, India Destroying Quietly US Economy, INDIA DESTROYING US ECONOMY, India Destroys US Economy, INDIA EXPOSED, INDIA FRAUD, INDIA IMAGE SPIN MASTERS, INDIA MACHINATIONS TO DESTROY CHINA, India Missile Technology Proliferator, India Secessionist Movements, India Splitting, INDIA SPLITTING INTO 5 NATIONS, India Sponsored Taliban Terrorism in Pakistan, INDIA SPONSORED TERRORISM IN KARACHI, INDIA STATE SPONSORED TERRORISM IN PAKISTAN, INDIA TRAINED SUICIDE BOMBERS FROM AFGHANISTAN, India Training Suicide Bombers in FATA on October 17th, 2014
Since October 6, this year, India accelerated cross-border shelling along the Line of Control (LoC) and Working Boundary (WB) and killed several innocent persons including their animals inside Pakistan. It compelled tens thousands of the residents of the villages to migrate to safe areas, with their livestock and other belongings.
In this regard, spokesman of the Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), Maj-General Asim Bajwa said that Pakistan Rangers and troops “befittingly” responded to “unprovoked firing” by Indian Border Security Forces (BSF) and military troops. He also clarified that Pakistan’s Armed Forces are fully prepared to meet any aggression.
Regarding these constant violations, Pakistan government has lodged a strong protest, and also raised the issue with the UN Military Observers Group in India and Pakistan, asking for a visit of the observers to the affected areas.
Meanwhile, in India where Pakistan is accused of starting the skirmishes, leader of the fundamentalist party BJP and Prime Minister of India, Narendra Modi is reported to have given a free hand to the Indian forces to go on aggressively with the violations. While, Pakistan’s Prime Minister Nawaz Shariff convened a meeting of the National Security Committe on Oct 10, this year, and discussed the recent ceasefire violations by India at the LoC and WB.
It is notable that by acting upon a preplanned scheme, Indian soldiers crossed over the LoC in Kashmir on January 6, 2013 and attacked a Pakistani check post, killing one Pakistani soldier and injuring many troops. Contrarily, on December 24, 2013, New Delhi agreed for the meeting of Directors-General Military Operations (DGMOs) of both the countries, who met in Pakistan, and discussed specific measures strengthening the bilateral ceasefire mechanism across the LoC.
While, Islamabad and India had on November 25, 2003, agreed to observe ceasefire along all areas of WB, LoC and the Actual Ground Position Line in Jammu and Kashmir. However, Pakistan military indicated that Indian hostility has gradually increased since 2010 making lives of civil population living in closer vicinity of the LoC and WB difficult. Indian troops committed 86 ceasefire violations in 2011, 230 in 2012 and 414 in 2013. But, Indians have again resorted to unprovoked firing for about 224 times on both LoC and WB and killed several people on the Pakistani side this year.
In this context, military officials further elaborated that Indian perennial escalation across the LoC and WB is according to a deliberate plan. So question arises as to why India continues cross-border shelling inside Pakistan.
In fact, by promoting Hindu chauvinism on the basis of anti-Muslim and anti-Pakistan slogans, extremist party, BJP won a landslide victory in the India elections 2014 by defeating the Congress. Now, BJP-led Prime Minister Modi has been implementing its party’s agenda against Pakistan. In this context, recent upsurge in skirmishes across the LoC and WB is also linked to upcoming elections in Indian occupied Kashmir, as BJP again wants to make Pakistan a scapegoat. Therefore, the border violations, accompanying hostile statements by Indian leadership are aimed at motivating support base before the elections, and even the expected delay in polls in Kashmir would provide more time to the Indian side to hype up sentiments at the cost of Pakistan. The BJP government is looking at winning a majority in the Kashmir assembly so that it could fulfill its manifesto pledge of revoking the special status, given to Kashmir under Indian constitution’s Article 370, and to strengthen its measures to annex the area.
As regards Indian covert aims, BJP rulers are trying to divert attention of international community from the Kashmir dispute, while, Kashmiri leaders and Pakistan have been keeping this issue in limelight.
In this connection, terming the support and advocacy of the right to self determination of the people of Jammu and Kashmi (J&K), Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, while addressing 69th session of the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA), stressed for settlement of the Kashmir issue, and offered Pakistan’s readiness to endeavor for the same through negotiations. He also reminded the international community of its pledge for holding “plebiscite” in the Indian-held Kashmir, and resolves the issue in accordance with UN Charter. The speech generated appreciations from the political circles of Pakistan and Kashmir as well. It is also acknowledged that the speech is true reflection of sentiments of the people of Pakistan, who believe that peace and prosperity in south Asia is inter- linked with solution of core dispute of Kashmir between Pakistan and India.
Islamabad’s successful attempt at the UNGA seems to have irked Indian political, diplomatic and journalist circles. Under the growing frustration, a notoriously controversial journalist affiliated with the Indian NDTV namely Barkha Dutt engaged Pakistan’s prime minister’s special advisor on Foreign Affairs Sartaj Aziz, and managed to create a controversy through aggressive posture to make him concede that Pakistani High Commissioner Abdul Basit’s meeting with the Kashmiri leadership in New Delhi was ill-timed, and affected secretary level engagements with Pakistan. No doubt, Barkha-Aziz episode has been projected, because under the pretext, India cancelled secretary level talks with Islamabad.
Moreover, Indian media created an impression that Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif by highlighting Kashmir issue made an effort to improve relations with military establishment in the backdrop of the protesters of the sit-ins led by PTI and PAT. It also generated controversy of gray relations between political and military echelons of Pakistan. By increasing cross-border shelling, New Delhi also wants to create pressure on Islamabad and the Armed Forces in wake of present political turmoil—and military operation Zarb-e-Azb which successfully continues against terrorists in North Waziristan Agency.
It is of particular attention that BJP leader Dr. Subramaniam Swami stated on July 12, 2014 that India needed only two years to defeat Pakistan militarily, and the only solution of Kashmir was war, as “there is no peaceful, democratic solution. Responding to the withdrawal of the US-led NATO forces from Afghanistan, he remarked, “Americans will hand over Afghanistan to Taliban and go…India should send at least 200,000 troops to Afghanistan.”
In these terms, Indian hawks think that in the aftermath of the withdrawal of NATO, they will keep their anti-Pakistan network in Afghanistan by harming the genuine interests of Pakistan which shares geographical, cultural and religious bonds with the former, and is determined to bring peace and stability there.
Now, as part of its blame game, India has intensified unprovoked firing at the LoC in Kashmir and WB in Sialkot to delay the Pak-India peace process, without caring for latter’s nuclear weapons.
Undoubtedly, every Indian government due to international pressure found it easy to make false pledges that it was willing to engage in peace process to resolve all issues like Siachen, Sir Creek, Wullar Barrage, Water and especially main dispute of Kashmir with Islamabad. But, New Delhi earnestly endeavored to find excuses and pretexts to cancel peace talks, while shifting the blame to Pakistan. For example, in 2002, under the pretension of terrorist attack on the Indian parliament, India postponed the dialogue process. Again, in 2008, India cancelled the ‘composite dialogue’ on the pretext of Mumbai terror attacks.
Particularly, on May 27, 2014 Prime Minister Modi’s meeting with Prime Minister Sharif in the oath-taking ceremony proved faultless, because Modi raised baseless issues of terrorism as pre-conditions to advance the Pak-Indian dialogue. He said that slow pace of trial against the terrorists of the Mumbai 26/11 terror case; being held in Pakistan is main hurdle.
But, Indian prime minister ignored the fact that on July 19, 2013 the Indian former home ministry and ex-investigating officer Satish Verma disclosed that terror-attacks in Mumbai in November 26, 2008 and assault on Indian Parliament in January 12, 2001 were carried out by the Indian government to strengthen anti-terrorism laws.
Notably, in the recent past, United Nations Military Observer Group India and Pakistan in New Delhi was asked to vacate official accommodation, claiming that its role had become irrelevant.
It is also mentionable that Pakistani business community is agitated by the High handedness of Indian authorities in India, whenever they participate in trade exhibitions. As per visa protocols of year 2012, both India and Pakistan are bound to give business visa “Exemption from Police Reporting.” Recently, Pakistani delegation members were fined $ 40 per participant for missing Police reporting during trade exhibition (Alishan Pakistan), held at New Delhi from 11-14 September 2014. Besides this, no relaxation is being granted by Indian authorities in issuance of visa to Pakistani businessmen. Element of non-cooperation and aggressiveness towards Pakistan is significant in conduct of Indian authorities after the arrival of Modi regime in power.
Nonetheless, we can undoubtedly conclude that India continues cross-border shelling inside Pakistan so as to obtain multiple designs against the former.
Sajjad Shaukat writes on international affairs and is author of the book: US vs Islamic Militants, Invisible Balance of Power: Dangerous Shift in International Relations
Email: [email protected]
Posted by admin in India -US Joint Export to Pakistan: Terrorism, India Backstabbing US, INDIA BEHIND BALOCH TERRORISM, India Destroying Quietly US Economy, INDIA DESTROYING US ECONOMY, INDIA IMAGE SPIN MASTERS, INDIA MACHINATIONS TO DESTROY CHINA, India Missile Technology Proliferator, India Pollution, India Promoting Subversion in Pakistan Via Afghanistan, INDIA REF-- -- USES TO DEAL, India Secessionist Movements, India Splitting, INDIA SPLITTING INTO 5 NATIONS, India Sponsored Taliban Terrorism in Pakistan, INDIA SPONSORED TERRORISM IN KARACHI, INDIA-AN EVIL NATION, INDIA-HO-- -- USE BUILT ON SAND AND COW DUNG, INDIA: THE EVIL HINDU EMPIRE, INDIAN AGENT NAWAZ SHARIF:FREE ARY, INDIAN ARMY CHIEF-TOKENISM TO APPEASE SIKH MINORITY, INDIAN SCAMMERS AROUND THE GLOBE, INDIAN TERRORISM FROM CENTRAL ASIAN REPUBLICS, INDOPHILE NAWAZ SHARIF on May 27th, 2014
Excerpt:
“First, India has shown yet again the signal virtue of democracy: the peaceful transfer of legitimate power. That this is possible in such a vast, diverse and poor country is an inspiring political achievement……Second, Indians have rejected the dynastic politics of the Congress party, which, alas, brought to a sad end the distinguished public service of Manmohan Singh, a man I have known and admired for four decades……Third, Mr Modi truly is a self-made man……Indians have chosen a man who promises to improve their lives. He is not chosen for his origins. That is testimony to India’s transformation over the past quarter of a century…..This election might prove to be a big step towards the economic modernisation of India that was relaunched in 1991. But this round of reforms will also be far harder than those were…..Mr Modi remains an enigma. He is a man of action, a nationalist and a committed member of the Hindutva movement. It is hard to believe he would match Mr Singh’s emollient reaction to Pakistan’s promotion of terrorism. It is impossible to know what he might mean for India’s communal relations. Nobody knows either how far he feels obliged to the business people who funded his campaign
The captioned article in today’s FT is excellent and points towards the same issues that our policy makers should be focussing on . India’s Election Remakes our WorldBy Martin Wolf Modi must accelerate economic progress to benefit the vast majority, not just the elites©Ingram PinnAn Indian economist, has written to me that India’s recent election is “the most momentous election in world history”. I disagree: the elections of Abraham Lincoln and Franklin Delano Roosevelt were more significant.But the idea is not absurd. India’s population is 1.27 billion. Soon it will overtake China as the most populous country. If the election of Narendra Modi were to transform India, it would transform the world.It is already possible to identify at least three ways in which the Indian election is remarkable.First, India has shown yet again the signal virtue of democracy: the peaceful transfer of legitimate power. That this is possible in such a vast, diverse and poor country is an inspiring political achievement.Second, Indians have rejected the dynastic politics of the Congress party, which, alas, brought to a sad end the distinguished public service of Manmohan Singh, a man I have known and admired for four decades. The most important Congress-led government since the days of Jawaharlal Nehru was that of Narasimha Rao in the early 1990s, under whom Mr Singh served as reforming finance minister. If Mr Modi succeeds, it will be because he builds on that foundation. Congress still has the best chance of being the strong secular party India needs, but only if it liberates itself from its dependence on the Gandhi family.Third, Mr Modi truly is a self-made man. Even though his party won just 31 per cent of the vote, he has gained an overwhelming majority in the lower house. He has done so by promising to spread the perceived successes of Gujarat to the rest of the country. There is debate in India over whether Gujarat is the model it is alleged to be. Yet that is not the main point. What matters more is that Indians have chosen a man who promises to improve their lives. He is not chosen for his origins. That is testimony to India’s transformation over the past quarter of a century.The outgoing government is condemned as a failure. Yet, as Shankar Acharya, former chief economic adviser to the Indian government in the 1990s, points out, “economic growth has averaged 7.5 per cent a year, the fastest in any decade in Indian history. This rapid growth in gross domestic product has raised average income . . . by nearly 75 per cent in real, inflation-adjusted rupees.” This sounds good. But, he adds, it also hides the truth.Growth slowed sharply over the past three years “because of the cumulation of bad economic policies”, while consumer price inflation has risen to between 9 and 11 per cent over the past five years. At the same time, Mr Acharya says, the government’s policies became steadily worse. He points to exorbitant spending on subsidies for oil, food and fertilisers, wasteful entitlement programmes, exorbitant pay settlements and huge fiscal deficits. Other failures include the refusal to lift disincentives to employment, crony capitalism, capricious regulation, retrospective taxation, excessive jumps in food procurement prices and corruption.Mr Acharya argues that all this has contributed to a daunting legacy: a failure to create jobs for the 10 million young people entering the job market each year; stagnation in manufacturing; inadequate infrastructure; huge overhangs of incomplete projects; vulnerability of agriculture due to water stress; badly run entitlement programmes; the weakening of the country’s external finances; and further deterioration in the quality of governance itself.Mr Acharya is a sober analyst of Indian economic realities, who worked closely with Mr Singh in the 1990s. His damning assessment is persuasive. Yet India can surely do better. The latest estimates suggest that GDP per head is just a tenth that of the US, and half that of China. It must be possible for this country to catch up even faster.Mr Modi has above all been elected to accelerate development. But if one recalls the failure of his Bharatiya Janata party’s “India shining” campaign of a decade ago, he must do so in ways seen to benefit the vast majority of the population, not just its elites.It is not clear whether Mr Modi can rise to such big challenges in this vast and complex country. His motto – “less government and more governance” – has caught the public mood. Yet it is not clear what this will mean in practice.An analysis by JPMorgan suggests that in fact “there is a remarkable convergence of broad economic thinking” between the two main parties. The difference, if so, might be more in implementation, an area Mr Modi’s supporters also stress. This suggests that the goods and services tax (a national value added tax) might be put into effect, investment projects might be accelerated, energy prices might be liberalised, shares in public enterprises might be sold – albeit without full privatisation – and fiscal consolidation might be accelerated.This would be to the good, but probably not enough to bring about the needed acceleration of growth and jobs generation. Vital further reforms would be in employment regulation, education and infrastructure, with a view to making India a base for labour-intensive manufacturing. With Chinese wages rising, this is a plausible ambition. Improvement in the administration of law is crucial. Agriculture needs big advances, including a more modern supply chain. The states need to be forced to compete with one another for people, capital and technology.This election might prove to be a big step towards the economic modernisation of India that was relaunched in 1991. But this round of reforms will also be far harder than those were. It is not now just a matter of pulling the state out of the way. It is more about making the government an effective and honest servant of the Indian people. This challenge is possibly an order of magnitude more daunting than those Mr Modi once overcame in Gujarat.Mr Modi remains an enigma. He is a man of action, a nationalist and a committed member of the Hindutva movement. It is hard to believe he would match Mr Singh’s emollient reaction to Pakistan’s promotion of terrorism. It is impossible to know what he might mean for India’s communal relations. Nobody knows either how far he feels obliged to the business people who funded his campaign. But one thing is sure: India has a new game. Pay attention.
Read more: http://www.terminalx.org/2010/12/threat-of-hindu-saffron-terror-to-india.html#ixzz32xITqUqU |
Posted by admin in HINDUISM CULT, INDIA DESTROYING US ECONOMY, INDIA EXPOSED, INDIA FRAUD, INDIA IMAGE SPIN MASTERS on January 4th, 2014
This is just the second shot of the opening salvo. There will be more. I have worked these last ten years cleaning up the messes that the H-1B’s make. The Government here is starting to realize that the best and the brightest do not come from the third world. Logic dictates that new innovations do not come from a countries home populace that has just recently been introduced to indoor plumbing. We walked on the moon over forty years ago. You come here as Scab labor working for half or less the wage. fortunately you also screw almost everything you touch. They have tried for many years to get innovations from you and have only received non working programs and devices. The marketing people only see the bottom line. They do not understand that there is a difference between good engineering and bad engineering. They see a degree and figure this person is an engineer. Those of us that have tried to acclimate you to innovation know different. Some companies have paid by going out of business. Others are back tracking trying to figure a way to save their company from the mistake of hiring substandard foreign workers. For those of you who sya that we cannot compete please read up on what happens to scab labor when they are removed. It is not pretty. Americans have been dealing with labor disputes for well over 100 years. Corp[orations have done this in the past and have paid dearly. In the end they always hand the scabs (technical term for cheap labor used in wage disputes) over to the repatriated American workers as a blood sacrifice as it were. Do you really think it will be different now.
Do you really think that you or us or anyone can compete with less then a dollar an hour wage like what is paid in China. Do you really think that you who just recently learned what the use of toilet paper was for can compete with real American innovators. By the time we get to the fifth or sixth stage of clearing this mess up you will be begging to go home and the few companies left standing will fight for the best American workers that are still out there. Get real swami. You cannot compete with real American engineers. We invented the phone, the car, the everything you use that uses electricity. What have you ever invented. Like I Did, read up on American history to see how this ends for you. It won’t be pretty.
You want truth here is some truth for you. The British tried to drag you into the twentieth century and failed. You did not invent calculas the Creeks did. You invented the sex. You must have as there are so many of you. Walk down any modern street in India and you will happen up[on a dead body just laying there. they come and night and pick them up. You did not invent the USB we did. I worked on that project in Chandler AZ in 1995. I was awarded a solid silver cup for my work on that project. That Indian guy was in the Bay area and was the project staffing manager. he was nearly fired for sending the layout to Malaysia. It came back all messed up and we worked 18 hour shifts fixing it. You guys break everything you touch. If you do on the rare occasion innovate something it is done here under our supervision. Not in India. For Gods sake man you people still use your finger to wipe your butts even when we provide you with toilet paper. But even with the starvation wages we pay you in India you can still not do a simple job like answer the phone. So now we are shipping the work to the Philippians. As for the people that we have coming here the best and the brightest. I was told one time by my boss to acclimate one of you and I told him after that experience never to ask me to do that again. I mean to take you to a grocery store and show you what deodorant is used for. What toilet paper is used for. and to walk by the meat counter and watch you faint dead away because you have never sen meat before. To explain that you have to bath every day. And then on the job we have to explain the simplest most basic principles of circuit design. High school stuff. But the top brass wants to save money so we do what we can to get you up to speed. What it more often turns out to be is us putting you in the corner with some fake work to keep you out of our hair while we work twice as hard because now we have lost our knowledgeable colleges. If you are so great then why don’t you go home. You invented technology. get real man wake up. you are living in a dream world. American corporations wants slaves. plain and simple. They get manufacturing workers in china for between 4 cents and up to 89 cents an hour for the ones who have masters degrees. Their engineers like you can remember formula. But, that is not engineering. If you could solve problems then you’d have indoor plumbing instead of coming here and getting all wild eyed when you walk into a bathroom. You will never catch up to the modern world. The medicine you practice is what was developed in the west. Or are you going to say that you invented SEM’s and CAT scanner, and MRI’s and the microchip. And whatever else there is in the modern world. Now, go and pray to whatever multi-headed elephant God you want for salvation. And, like always we have to explain everything twice to you and yet you still don’t get it. When the corporations are done with you they will make sure that you are returned to the slums they found you in. Once again go read up on American labor disputes and see what happens top the scabs. This has been going on here for a very long time. The 40 hour work week, the paid time off, the health insurance everything working benefit that you enjoy in this country was paid for in blood by the miners like the ones who just recently perished. Read up on what they did to the scabs once the strikes and such were done. When the back lash truly starts you won’t have time to leave the country. You will find yourself in the belly of the beast. You are a fool. You live the life of a fool and you will like all fools die a fools death. probably trying to cross the street. Or maybe by sticking your head in a microwave oven to see how it works while it’s running. Will you just go back to that rat infested S*%hole,called India you came from and we will send you some GM rice.
You want truth here is some truth for you. The British tried to drag you into the twentieth century and failed. You did not invent calculas the Creeks did. You invented the sex. You must have as there are so many of you. Walk down any modern street in India and you will happen up[on a dead body just laying there. they come and night and pick them up. You did not invent the USB we did. I worked on that project in Chandler AZ in 1995. I was awarded a solid silver cup for my work on that project. That Indian guy was in the Bay area and was the project staffing manager. he was nearly fired for sending the layout to Malaysia. It came back all messed up and we worked 18 hour shifts fixing it. You guys break everything you touch. If you do on the rare occasion innovate something it is done here under our supervision. Not in India. For Gods sake man you people still use your finger to wipe your butts even when we provide you with toilet paper. But even with the starvation wages we pay you in India you can still not do a simple job like answer the phone. So now we are shipping the work to the Philippians. As for the people that we have coming here the best and the brightest. I was told one time by my boss to acclimate one of you and I told him after that experience never to ask me to do that again. I mean to take you to a grocery store and show you what deodorant is used for. What toilet paper is used for. and to walk by the meat counter and watch you faint dead away because you have never sen meat before. To explain that you have to bath every day. And then on the job we have to explain the simplest most basic principles of circuit design. High school stuff. But the top brass wants to save money so we do what we can to get you up to speed. What it more often turns out to be is us putting you in the corner with some fake work to keep you out of our hair while we work twice as hard because now we have lost our knowledgeable colleges. If you are so great then why don’t you go home. You invented technology. get real man wake up. you are living in a dream world. American corporations wants slaves. plain and simple. They get manufacturing workers in china for between 4 cents and up to 89 cents an hour for the ones who have masters degrees. Their engineers like you can remember formula. But, that is not engineering. If you could solve problems then you’d have indoor plumbing instead of coming here and getting all wild eyed when you walk into a bathroom. You will never catch up to the modern world. The medicine you practice is what was developed in the west. Or are you going to say that you invented SEM’s and CAT scanner, and MRI’s and the microchip. And whatever else there is in the modern world. Now, go and pray to whatever multi-headed elephant God you want for salvation. And, like always we have to explain everything twice to you and yet you still don’t get it. When the corporations are done with you they will make sure that you are returned to the slums they found you in. Once again go read up on American labor disputes and see what happens top the scabs. This has been going on here for a very long time. The 40 hour work week, the paid time off, the health insurance everything working benefit that you enjoy in this country was paid for in blood by the miners like the ones who just recently perished. Read up on what they did to the scabs once the strikes and such were done. When the back lash truly starts you won’t have time to leave the country. You will find yourself in the belly of the beast. You are a fool. You live the life of a fool and you will like all fools die a fools death. probably trying to cross the street. Or maybe by sticking your head in a microwave oven to see how it works while it’s running. Will you just go back to that rat infested S*%hole your came from and we will send you some GM rice.
Another US IT person:
Those who complain about the USCIS enforcement of current USA laws have something to hide. You break the law, you face the consequences. Sorry I didn’t get any break when H-1B stole my job. Now H-1B wannabes get to experience US corporate greed first hand. Doesn’t feel good, does it.. Maybe you will be more empathetic to the people you replaced.
Despite popular H-1B belief, you, exclusively, are not the masters of the universe. Thanks to corporate greed and political corruption,the people you replaced, hardworking, qualified and educated Americans have lost our jobs, homes, life savings, and healthcare as a direct result of the corrupt H-1B temporary work visa program.
Think again if you think you can get away with one of the H-1B visas that bend the rules.I suspect lots of laid off US workers like me are only too happy to help the USCIS enforce the law.
“The changes are for protecting US jobs as many IT companies are misusing them. The body shoppers WIPRO, SATYAM MAHINDRA, TCS, INFOSYS should all be in line next after the small body shoppers are stopped. These big companies grew overnight by outsourcing US Jobs. They do not create new jobs but just OUTSOURCE”
Sad thing to write on India’s Republic day!
Because of the consultants and their malpractices there is such a bad name for Indian community in US of A. Even big companies such as TCS, Infosys etc. get H1 VISA approved for their employees awaiting projects in US. This is atrocious, when there are many people in US waiting to change from one VISA to another, how can these big companies consume all the VISA numbers for a non-existing employment. I would suggest USCIS to initiate a strict rule saying that any H1B VISA applicant should have landed in US and be in US pay roll within 1-2 months of approval of H1B VISA or else he/she cannot come to US in H1B at all.
Another issue is the consultants, in NJ/NY and Bay area may be all over US there are 1000s of consultants doing this fraudulent VISA practice. These guys are from mainly one particular state in INDIA. I do not want to name that. One guy will come to US and then bring the whole village within one year through a consultant company (may be his brother-in law’s distant cousin – they have such a wonderful networking capability – only human networking). He gets paid for bringing people. Now this is SAD state of affairs. If anyone wants genuinely come here with all proper documents, the VISA officer and the people at POE look at you suspiciously!
Very bad!
SM
I hate this IT culture in India. HCL/TCS/WIPRO/INFY are sophisticated pimps where as there desi counterparts in US are street hustlers.Both thrive by selling body of poor consultants. This culture has altered our thinking process and made us cheap servants of western masters who dole out H1B visas and we like dogs runs for crumbs.
Look at China who has grown strong by creating robust manufacturing jaggernaut which no IT company can match.They are producing goods and thus makin chinese people self reliant.Do Indian IT companies have guts to make software product and sell it world over or would they keep on living like parasites and dutiful servants.
I wish to see a day when Indians stop complaining about H1B policies of their masters who throw crumbs at them.
Well, see the facts man. If you look at numbers- there are only 1000 H1B visas filed by top INdian consulting companies. like Infosys, Microsoft etc…rest thousands (100,000) of H1Bs are being filed by these fraud Indian consulting (Body-shoppers) who will anything to make money. Let people fake resumes, layers, lies…these are FACTS.
If you look at H1B worker- isn’t he supposed to have job before he lands here- isn’t he supposed to make money from day 1…I do not know how strictly the USCIS can enforce this memorandum..I am sure at the begining everything may look like mess- but if they can hold on to those rules for couple of years- everything will be streamed out. It is good for immigrants, good for Job market..it would fair game..smooth and clean. Poor Americans are having hard time undestading how this market is working- Fact is- it is just the fraud game. I lie that I know some technology- i get on board I will have somebody who has knowledge on phone…keep working…if i can fairwell..who cares..they will fire…just find an another job…as easy as it is…At most your contract gets terminated what do you have to loose….atleast you got free training in the real time environment. You will do better …keep trying…until you become knowledgble……:)..That is what is going on 90% of the cases.
Reference: http://www.happyschoolsblog.com/neufeld-memo-h1b-workers-deported-to-india/
On one fateful day, January 11, 2010, when Continental Airlines Flight 49 landed in Newark from Mumbai, India, we know that CBP officer Matt McGirr and his colleagues, hunted through the lines for Indian H-1B workers even before they showed up for primary inspection. Their minds were made up. No detailed questions were asked. The moment they found Indian H-1B workers who uttered that they were working at a client site in the IT field, their fates were sealed. They were subjected to expedited removal orders and sent back to India.
Here’s where it starts: Employers say there’s a lack of tech professionals who have the skills they need to compete in today’s increasingly technology-driven global markets. They can’t find computer systems analysts, programmers and software applications engineers, especially with advanced degrees. Without these skills, they contend, they’re at a disadvantage. But by hiring professionals from other countries, who are more than willing to bring their talents to the United States, they can solve the problem.
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